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 Post subject: Re: SASR 4 Squadron?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:01 am
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Location: The Wide West
Served in: HMAS Collins, Farncomb, Waller, Sheean. USS Santa-Fe
jimmy12 wrote:
Heard it was based out of Frankston, anyone care to shed some light?
Turns out those floating bodies in Kannanook creek were not bloated corpses but indeed men of the Super Army Soldier Regiment training for ops in Africa. Or the SASR to those now down wit teh lingo's



They breed some of the Country's finest out of Frankston....... :ninja:

And I love this "quote" from the article.

Quote:
In a comment relayed to government officials, one soldier said: ''What happens if we get caught?''


Because no-one in the Defence force knows the difference between Covert and Clandestine....shit thread :booo:


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 Post subject: Re: SASR 4 Squadron?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:44 pm 
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Served in: Timor 03 and 06, Southern Ocean/Antarctica, Afghanistan, et al,
Thank god they haven't revealed the existence of 5,6,7 squadrons. Next thing you know they'll reveal where we've been hiding the aliens.


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 Post subject: Re: SASR 4 Squadron?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:49 pm
Posts: 4999
Location: Back in Bris-vegas, lost in the bright lights of the big smoke.
Served in: Former ARES Infantry & Dashing Lighthorseman.
Cryptid wrote:
olks wrote:
I've been waiting all f***ing day for some retard to come on and start asking questions about this 4 Sqd and f*** me dead here you came. :drinkers:


Three points here.

1) I'm glad I could satisfy your virtual sexual deviancy.

2) Try to use more creative insults for people you don't know, i.e. don't drop everyone's IQ by parroting the sub-standard stock insult of a 12-year-old running amok on t3h int3rnetz.

3) fo·rum/ˈfôrəm/
Noun:
A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
An Internet message board.

I'm glad you can help out, I am equally glad I can assist you in forward thinking.


You should watch your mouth pal.
Whilst Olks may sound like a knuckle-dragger to your high-falutin' ways and airs, at least he understands that "need-to-know" is a life saving enterprise in our former line of work.

There are some things most educated people can guess at, after all, it's not f#cking rocket surgery that we may have less than obvious assets for various things to make stuff happen.

But smart people don't discuss what doesn't concern them when the chips and risks are high.
I believe the old saying applies: Loose lips - sink ships.
Might I politely suggest that you pull your head in?


Last edited by 22F on Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: SASR 4 Squadron?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:09 pm 
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Location: The Wide West
Served in: HMAS Collins, Farncomb, Waller, Sheean. USS Santa-Fe
It's the age of people thinking they have the right to know everything. Christ, my wife and kids know nothing about my career exploits.


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 Post subject: Re: SASR 4 Squadron?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:26 pm 
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Location: Wollongong
I had the same thought about all this Silent Jack. I can just imagine the media saying that the public has a right to know about this sort of thing. Well I like knowing this sort of thing, its interesting, but if its covert and kept quiet then there is a damn good reason for that. My opinion of the media goes down daily, its like they think the normal rules of decency or common sense don't apply to them


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 Post subject: Secret SAS squadron sent to spy in Africa
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:35 pm 
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Location: The nanny state
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Secret SAS squadron sent to spy in Africa
Rafael Epstein and Dylan Welch
March 13, 2012


A secret squadron of Australian SAS soldiers has been operating at large in Africa, performing work normally done by spies, in an unannounced and possibly dangerous expansion of Australia's foreign military engagement.

The deployment of the SAS's 4 Squadron - the existence of which has never been publicly confirmed - has put the special forces unit at the outer reaches of Australian and international law.
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The Age has confirmed that troopers from the squadron have mounted dozens of secret operations over the past year in African nations including Zimbabwe, Nigeria and Kenya.

They have been out of uniform and not accompanied by Australian Secret Intelligence Service officers with whom undercover SAS forces are conventionally deployed.

It is believed the missions have involved gathering intelligence on terrorism and scoping rescue strategies for Australian civilians trapped by kidnapping or civil war.

But the operations have raised serious concerns within the Australian military and intelligence community because they involve countries where Australia is not at war.

There are also concerns within the SAS that the troopers do not have adequate legal protection or contingency plans if they are captured. ''They have all the espionage skills but without [ASIS's] legal cover,'' said one government source.

In a comment relayed to government officials, one soldier said: ''What happens if we get caught?''

Australian National University professor Hugh White, a former deputy secretary of Defence, said: ''Such an operation deprives the soldier of a whole lot of protections, including their legal status and, in a sense, their identity as a soldier. I think governments should think extremely carefully before they ask soldiers to do that.''

Despite the dangers, then foreign minister Kevin Rudd last year asked for troopers from 4 Squadron to be used in Libya during that country's conflict. His plan was thwarted by opposition from Defence Minister Stephen Smith and chief of the Defence Force General David Hurley.

Both Mr Smith and General Hurley declined to be interviewed about this story.

SAS 4 Squadron is based at Swan Island, near Queenscliff, a high-security defence facility that has doubled in size over the past decade, in part to accommodate the new squadron.

The squadron was formally raised in 2005 by the Howard government, but The Age has learnt that its new intelligence-focused role was authorised in late 2010 or early last year by Mr Smith.

The SAS is also at the forefront of gender reform in the Australian military, with six female soldiers being trained in the United States for their work with 4 Squadron.

Collecting intelligence overseas without using violence is the main function of ASIS, which was created in 1952 but not officially acknowledged until 1977.

Since the mid-1980s, ASIS officers have been refused permission to carry weapons or use violence, but in 2004 the Howard government amended legislation to allow them to have weapons for self-defence and to participate in violent operations provided the officers themselves do not use force.

It was around that time that the creation of the fourth SAS squadron was authorised, with its soldiers expected to be an elite version of bodyguards and scouts for ASIS intelligence officers.

The African operations by 4 Squadron initially centred on possible rescue scenarios for endangered Australian citizens, such as freelance journalist Nigel Brennan, who was held by Somali rebels.

The soldiers have also assessed African border controls, explored landing sites for possible military interventions and developed scenarios for evacuating Australians, as well as assessing local politics. ASIS officers are legally permitted to carry false Australian passports and, if arrested, can deny who they are employed by. ADF members on normal operations cannot carry false identification and cannot deny which government they work for.

While the SAS has worked alongside Australia's intelligence agencies for decades, the creation of a dedicated squadron mirrors the US model, where the military and the intelligence services have closer links.

That relationship has resulted in the growing importance of the US Joint Special Operations Command, whose soldiers killed al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden in Pakistan last year.

Some staff within the ADF's special operations command see 4 Squadron detracting from what they believe is the main effort - the war in Afghanistan and the counterterrorism teams on the east and west coasts of Australia, manned by soldiers from the 2nd Commando Regiment and the SAS respectively. But others argue it is vital to Australia's contribution to the American fight against al-Qaeda - particularly in the Horn of Africa. US intelligence believes many second-tier al-Qaeda fighters and leaders from the Afghanistan and Pakistan region have fled there.

The intelligence gathered by the Australian soldiers in countries such as Kenya all flows into databases used by the US and its allies in Africa.

Australia's security service ASIO is also increasingly concerned by the domestic threat posed by Somalia-based terror group al-Shabaab. ASIO holds concerns that a small group within Australia's growing Somali community is sending money to al-Shabaab.


http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politi ... 1uwjs.html



I read this in the newspaper this morning, and as it seems other news sources are getting a hold of info like this as well, however, I'll take this with a grain of salt. It reminds me of one of the forum member's comments on here that sooner or later we will be operating in parts of Africa.

While there is an issue of the trooper's protection, I reckon news of this should never have got out, lest it may or will create problems further down the track, becoming an OPSEC issue. Especially when the general public is notified of something like this.

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Secret SAS squadron sent to spy in Africa
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:37 pm 
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Wow, how was this missed on the forum....
I also like how you are saddened that this info is out there in the public domain, yet keep the ball rolling with it.


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 Post subject: Re: SASR 4 Squadron?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:49 pm
Posts: 4999
Location: Back in Bris-vegas, lost in the bright lights of the big smoke.
Served in: Former ARES Infantry & Dashing Lighthorseman.
That's the problem Stu. I think we'd both agree that most media types and sheeple assume they have a right to know, in order to prevent any "rogue" operations or other Hollywood fantasy.

None of these clowns realise just how regulated most jobs are.
Just because someone who works in an office doesn't have much, or realise how much oversight they have, doesn't mean others work under similar circumstances.

Most any of life's really "fun" activities have so much oversight, checks and balances that it sucks all the joy out of life.


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 Post subject: Re: Secret SAS squadron sent to spy in Africa
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:46 am
Posts: 109
"The SAS is also at the forefront of gender reform in the Australian military, with six female soldiers being trained in the United States for their work with 4 Squadron."

My bullshit meter just went off the f***ing chart. Even if I were to accept everything else the article claimed as may or may not be happening, that sentence is beyond the realm of belief and borders on a journalist pulling shit out of a hat to make his story a tad more sensational. They're being trained the the United States - what would even be the point of that? If it were happening, why the f*** wouldn't they just train them here?

I have absolutely no doubt that Rafael Epstein and Dylan Welch wrote this to make a name for themselves and nothing more; the media and the US public went into a frenzy when “Seal Team Six” and “covert special operations” started to hit their headlines after a few notorious events. They knew the model would work and they deliberately sensationalised a story to suit their own interest.


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 Post subject: Re: SASR 4 Squadron?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:27 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:49 pm
Posts: 4999
Location: Back in Bris-vegas, lost in the bright lights of the big smoke.
Served in: Former ARES Infantry & Dashing Lighthorseman.
You Sir [ETA: Cryptid], are an utter clown.
I mean this with no disrepect, but complete conviction.
A certified, Ronald MacDonald shoe wearing clown.

Some things in life simply shouldn't be discussed, whether they be in open knowledge or not.
Operational security isn't my first concern as to WHY not to discuss it.

I say again: some things in this world should not be discussed, even if only for simple measures of taste and decorum.

If you simply can't comprehend why such things shouldn't be discussed in an open forum, whether operational or otherwise, you have no clue.

Bugger it, since the NCO part of my personality still burns brightly, I'll leave you a teaching point as an example. Although I seriously doubt that you will be able to comprehend it, it will at least serve as a teaching point for others.

If the news media found out that a family member had some rare zoological social disease, would you really like to have that plastered across the whole interwebs? Let the muck-rakers make up whatever lurid details they can think of about how your nearest and dearest just happened to acquire this little medical condition?
Certain aspects of life are entitled to privacy. They're best not discussed unless you happen to be on the medical team.


Last edited by 22F on Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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